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	<title>Comments for asymco</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.asymco.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.asymco.com</link>
	<description>Curated Market Intelligence</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:17:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Nokia&#8217;s fifth last chance by Carniphage</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/06/nokias-fifth-last-chance/comment-page-1/#comment-2367</link>
		<dc:creator>Carniphage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1880#comment-2367</guid>
		<description>Apple have disrupted the structure of this market.

It&#039;s no longer driven by what carriers want. It is driven by what consumers want. Consumer demand for Apple&#039;s phone has driven profits way past Nokia in a few short years. Despite its small market share.

The consumer does not care about carriers. They hold those brands largely in contempt. They just hate some less than others.  And if Nokia are indeed tied to the demands of carriers, then instead of avoiding the icebergs they are tethering their ship to them.

Plotting lines on a graph does indeed reveal increasing sales of so-called smartphones for Nokia.  But these devices are not the ones that matter. It is only the N-Series devices that are a competitor for iPhone - and N-Series sales are declining as rapidly as Nokia&#039;s profits. 

This is not a co-incidence. Only the N-Series class of devices are really capable of delivering substantial profits.

So while extrapolating lines on these graphs will tell you that in 18 months time Nokia will be selling even more smartphones. 

But those same extrapolations also say that Nokia will be trading at a loss.

C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple have disrupted the structure of this market.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s no longer driven by what carriers want. It is driven by what consumers want. Consumer demand for Apple&#8217;s phone has driven profits way past Nokia in a few short years. Despite its small market share.</p>
<p>The consumer does not care about carriers. They hold those brands largely in contempt. They just hate some less than others.  And if Nokia are indeed tied to the demands of carriers, then instead of avoiding the icebergs they are tethering their ship to them.</p>
<p>Plotting lines on a graph does indeed reveal increasing sales of so-called smartphones for Nokia.  But these devices are not the ones that matter. It is only the N-Series devices that are a competitor for iPhone &#8211; and N-Series sales are declining as rapidly as Nokia&#8217;s profits. </p>
<p>This is not a co-incidence. Only the N-Series class of devices are really capable of delivering substantial profits.</p>
<p>So while extrapolating lines on these graphs will tell you that in 18 months time Nokia will be selling even more smartphones. </p>
<p>But those same extrapolations also say that Nokia will be trading at a loss.</p>
<p>C.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by gctwnl</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2366</link>
		<dc:creator>gctwnl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2366</guid>
		<description>Apple also has high margins on the Mac side of business. I just compared a comparable i7 2.93GHz iMac with a comparable Dell and the Dell was hundreds of $ more expensive when everything was added up. If Dell as a firm has low margins, it must mean they either are not able to produce as well as Apple or they mostly sell low margin cheaper boxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple also has high margins on the Mac side of business. I just compared a comparable i7 2.93GHz iMac with a comparable Dell and the Dell was hundreds of $ more expensive when everything was added up. If Dell as a firm has low margins, it must mean they either are not able to produce as well as Apple or they mostly sell low margin cheaper boxes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where are the iPod touch knockoffs? by yowsers</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/where-are-the-ipod-touch-clones/comment-page-1/#comment-2365</link>
		<dc:creator>yowsers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1853#comment-2365</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you on most of that, but came out with a different conclusion.

I look at the iPhone as a super iPod Touch (better cameras and range with 3G).  The phone is free.

I barely use the phone.  Always been that way.  But I have to have a number and a line available for the times I do require a phone (and when I require it, I *really* do require it -- calls with family, job phone interviews, etc.)

I have to pay for phone service anyway, and it has to be cellular, too (land lines are not an option since they became useless about a decade ago with all the telemarketers out there.)  So I summarize up the iPhone this way:

1. The iPod Touch portion is what I really paid $300 for.
2. I don&#039;t count the cost of the phone service contract since I&#039;d pay that anyway out of my personal &quot;overhead&quot; budget.  This is an expense to me whether I got an iPhone or any other device.
3. The phone portion therefore is free.

Maybe not the most astute or correct analysis, but that&#039;s how I view it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you on most of that, but came out with a different conclusion.</p>
<p>I look at the iPhone as a super iPod Touch (better cameras and range with 3G).  The phone is free.</p>
<p>I barely use the phone.  Always been that way.  But I have to have a number and a line available for the times I do require a phone (and when I require it, I *really* do require it &#8212; calls with family, job phone interviews, etc.)</p>
<p>I have to pay for phone service anyway, and it has to be cellular, too (land lines are not an option since they became useless about a decade ago with all the telemarketers out there.)  So I summarize up the iPhone this way:</p>
<p>1. The iPod Touch portion is what I really paid $300 for.<br />
2. I don&#8217;t count the cost of the phone service contract since I&#8217;d pay that anyway out of my personal &#8220;overhead&#8221; budget.  This is an expense to me whether I got an iPhone or any other device.<br />
3. The phone portion therefore is free.</p>
<p>Maybe not the most astute or correct analysis, but that&#8217;s how I view it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nokia&#8217;s fifth last chance by Ted T.</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/06/nokias-fifth-last-chance/comment-page-1/#comment-2364</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1880#comment-2364</guid>
		<description>@Priit: Sorry, what country are you in, if it isn&#039;t a secret?

I am presuming that the iPad simply hasn&#039;t gone on sale there yet.  Now that store.apple.com is offering 24 hour shipping on iPads, I would guess that supply is starting to catch up to demand and Apple will start opening new countries for the iPad shortly.

So far the iPhone, the locking/exclusivity is a problem in some countries but not others.  In Italy and Belgium for instance all iPhones are sold unlocked -- locking would be illegal.  Plenty of countries have banned carrier exclusivity as well -- France for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Priit: Sorry, what country are you in, if it isn&#8217;t a secret?</p>
<p>I am presuming that the iPad simply hasn&#8217;t gone on sale there yet.  Now that store.apple.com is offering 24 hour shipping on iPads, I would guess that supply is starting to catch up to demand and Apple will start opening new countries for the iPad shortly.</p>
<p>So far the iPhone, the locking/exclusivity is a problem in some countries but not others.  In Italy and Belgium for instance all iPhones are sold unlocked &#8212; locking would be illegal.  Plenty of countries have banned carrier exclusivity as well &#8212; France for instance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where are the iPod touch knockoffs? by Sigivald</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/where-are-the-ipod-touch-clones/comment-page-1/#comment-2363</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1853#comment-2363</guid>
		<description>See, I own a PSP and a DS.

And neither of them comes close to competing with an iPod Touch as a &lt;I&gt;general purpose device&lt;/i&gt;. (Both are superior platforms for pure gaming, however.)

The DS is a joke for anything but gaming. The PSP has more power, but lack of &lt;I&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; a keyboard and a touchscreen makes it a bad, bad joke as an internet appliance.

(And the &quot;iRiver Plus4&quot;? Not a product. It&#039;s software.

The various iRiver products don&#039;t seem real impressive or nearly as well-reviewed. Like the P7? Costs $169 with 8GB, has useless software [according to CNET], and doesn&#039;t even have WiFi or bluetooth.

(And it has a proprietary USB cable. Just like the iPod does, but without the advantage of being able to buy one anywhere because it&#039;s amazingly popular. So it&#039;s a negative in a much more dramatic way...)

Yes, it&#039;s a lot cheaper than an 8gb Touch. And I&#039;d feel ripped off, in comparison, if I had one.

There&#039;s a reason they&#039;re not sweeping the market and putting Apple to shame - and crappy UI is it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I own a PSP and a DS.</p>
<p>And neither of them comes close to competing with an iPod Touch as a <i>general purpose device</i>. (Both are superior platforms for pure gaming, however.)</p>
<p>The DS is a joke for anything but gaming. The PSP has more power, but lack of <i>both</i> a keyboard and a touchscreen makes it a bad, bad joke as an internet appliance.</p>
<p>(And the &#8220;iRiver Plus4&#8243;? Not a product. It&#8217;s software.</p>
<p>The various iRiver products don&#8217;t seem real impressive or nearly as well-reviewed. Like the P7? Costs $169 with 8GB, has useless software [according to CNET], and doesn&#8217;t even have WiFi or bluetooth.</p>
<p>(And it has a proprietary USB cable. Just like the iPod does, but without the advantage of being able to buy one anywhere because it&#8217;s amazingly popular. So it&#8217;s a negative in a much more dramatic way&#8230;)</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s a lot cheaper than an 8gb Touch. And I&#8217;d feel ripped off, in comparison, if I had one.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a reason they&#8217;re not sweeping the market and putting Apple to shame &#8211; and crappy UI is it.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by iPod Touch Said To Account For 38% Of All iOS Devices Sold &#124; Gizmodo Australia</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2362</link>
		<dc:creator>iPod Touch Said To Account For 38% Of All iOS Devices Sold &#124; Gizmodo Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2362</guid>
		<description>[...] announced that 120 million iOS devices have now been sold, but according to market research company Asymco, the iPod Touch accounts for 38 per cent of that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] announced that 120 million iOS devices have now been sold, but according to market research company Asymco, the iPod Touch accounts for 38 per cent of that [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where are the iPod touch knockoffs? by Sigivald</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/where-are-the-ipod-touch-clones/comment-page-1/#comment-2361</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1853#comment-2361</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s easy - because some of us actually need a telephone, and don&#039;t want two devices.

The AT+T contract is, indeed, a pretty grim option, but it&#039;s better than no phone.

There&#039;s a reason they sell like hotcakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s easy &#8211; because some of us actually need a telephone, and don&#8217;t want two devices.</p>
<p>The AT+T contract is, indeed, a pretty grim option, but it&#8217;s better than no phone.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a reason they sell like hotcakes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Smartphone market growing faster than expected by Rob Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/smartphone-market-growing-faster-than-expected/comment-page-1/#comment-2360</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1887#comment-2360</guid>
		<description>What is IDC&#039;s forecast accuracy? Is it possible to go back and compare their forecasts to actual units shipped by manufacturer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is IDC&#8217;s forecast accuracy? Is it possible to go back and compare their forecasts to actual units shipped by manufacturer?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2359</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2359</guid>
		<description>The iPod was introduced and defined as a music player, and given the new iPod nano, is still focused on being a music player. Over time, Apple determined that there are multiple distinct music player configurations: iPod shuffle - simple, light, clip-on, sports; classic - high storage capacity; nano - now just the basic music player; and touch - all-purpose for those who want more including gaming, video, camera, apps. (Clearly, Apple is pushing potential nano owners to think about touch instead. And classic is an ignored niche.) 

iPhone was introduced and defined as a multi-touch iPod, phone, and internet communicator; apps were later added.  Are there now distinct markets that want different physical/pricing configurations but still include all 3 (or 4, apps) elements?  Maybe if the new nano is a superhit, Apple may think about releasing a phone and music player (just 2 elements). From another perspective, does iPhone 4 add a 5th element with Facetime and HD video recording; or is that just an adjunct like video was to the iPods?

For now, I think the older 3GS is just a &quot;pricing&quot; play by Apple - it allows Apple to have a lower starting price, makes the iPhone 4 not seem as expensive in comparison, puts pressure on cheaper competitor phones, and gives Apple some time to roll out iPhone 4 thruout the world (i.e., South America, Africe: 3GS is not obsolete!).  And it gives the user a choice, but not a complex one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The iPod was introduced and defined as a music player, and given the new iPod nano, is still focused on being a music player. Over time, Apple determined that there are multiple distinct music player configurations: iPod shuffle &#8211; simple, light, clip-on, sports; classic &#8211; high storage capacity; nano &#8211; now just the basic music player; and touch &#8211; all-purpose for those who want more including gaming, video, camera, apps. (Clearly, Apple is pushing potential nano owners to think about touch instead. And classic is an ignored niche.) </p>
<p>iPhone was introduced and defined as a multi-touch iPod, phone, and internet communicator; apps were later added.  Are there now distinct markets that want different physical/pricing configurations but still include all 3 (or 4, apps) elements?  Maybe if the new nano is a superhit, Apple may think about releasing a phone and music player (just 2 elements). From another perspective, does iPhone 4 add a 5th element with Facetime and HD video recording; or is that just an adjunct like video was to the iPods?</p>
<p>For now, I think the older 3GS is just a &#8220;pricing&#8221; play by Apple &#8211; it allows Apple to have a lower starting price, makes the iPhone 4 not seem as expensive in comparison, puts pressure on cheaper competitor phones, and gives Apple some time to roll out iPhone 4 thruout the world (i.e., South America, Africe: 3GS is not obsolete!).  And it gives the user a choice, but not a complex one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2355</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2355</guid>
		<description>I updated the data with HTC.  I did not have volume data for the full period so I used only two years&#039; growth. [I also had an error in my formula for CAGR where I was over-stating the growth--though it applied to all competitors equally. It&#039;s now corrected].

HTC is actually closer to the green quadrant than to the red, but still in the middle (yellow) cluster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I updated the data with HTC.  I did not have volume data for the full period so I used only two years&#8217; growth. [I also had an error in my formula for CAGR where I was over-stating the growth--though it applied to all competitors equally. It's now corrected].</p>
<p>HTC is actually closer to the green quadrant than to the red, but still in the middle (yellow) cluster.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Gandhi</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2353</link>
		<dc:creator>Gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2353</guid>
		<description>I would be curious to see where HTC sits within this group. I would think it would be closer to SonyEricsson, than to Samsung or LG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be curious to see where HTC sits within this group. I would think it would be closer to SonyEricsson, than to Samsung or LG.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2352</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2352</guid>
		<description>No, thank you all. The audience makes the blog. I learn from it every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, thank you all. The audience makes the blog. I learn from it every day.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2351</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2351</guid>
		<description>A loss leader implies they lose money on it.  I strongly doubt it. Rather, I think it&#039;s a product that induces a cognitive illusion.


“Imagine I give you a choice. Do you want to go for a weekend to Rome? All expenses paid. Or a weekend in Paris? All expenses paid. Now,  these are different things. They have different food, different culture, different art. Now imagine I added a choice to the set that nobody wanted. Imagine I said, “A weekend in Rome, a weekend in Paris, or having your car stolen?” It’s a funny idea. Because why would having your car stolen, in this set, influence anything? But what if the option to have your car stolen was not exactly like this. What if it was a trip to Rome, all expenses paid, transportation, breakfast. But doesn’t include coffee in the morning. If you want coffee you have to pay for it yourself. It’s two euros. Now in some ways, given that you can have Rome with coffee, why would you possibly want Rome without coffee? It’s like having your car stolen. It’s an inferior option. But guess what happened. The moment you add Rome without coffee, Rome with coffee becomes more popular. And people choose it. The fact that you have Rome without coffee makes Rome with coffee look superior. And not just to Rome without coffee, even superior to Paris.”

The older (3GS) model is “Rome without coffee” and competing products are “Paris with coffee”. By offering “Rome without coffee” Apple guarantee higher orders for “Rome with Coffee”…

From: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A loss leader implies they lose money on it.  I strongly doubt it. Rather, I think it&#8217;s a product that induces a cognitive illusion.</p>
<p>“Imagine I give you a choice. Do you want to go for a weekend to Rome? All expenses paid. Or a weekend in Paris? All expenses paid. Now,  these are different things. They have different food, different culture, different art. Now imagine I added a choice to the set that nobody wanted. Imagine I said, “A weekend in Rome, a weekend in Paris, or having your car stolen?” It’s a funny idea. Because why would having your car stolen, in this set, influence anything? But what if the option to have your car stolen was not exactly like this. What if it was a trip to Rome, all expenses paid, transportation, breakfast. But doesn’t include coffee in the morning. If you want coffee you have to pay for it yourself. It’s two euros. Now in some ways, given that you can have Rome with coffee, why would you possibly want Rome without coffee? It’s like having your car stolen. It’s an inferior option. But guess what happened. The moment you add Rome without coffee, Rome with coffee becomes more popular. And people choose it. The fact that you have Rome without coffee makes Rome with coffee look superior. And not just to Rome without coffee, even superior to Paris.”</p>
<p>The older (3GS) model is “Rome without coffee” and competing products are “Paris with coffee”. By offering “Rome without coffee” Apple guarantee higher orders for “Rome with Coffee”…</p>
<p>From: <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2350</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2350</guid>
		<description>@Andrew Swift: apple does make a better phone than its current phone and market it at a higher price each year! We just watched the introduction of the iPhone 4, much better than the iPhone 3GS. The 16GB  4 sells for twice the price of the 8GB 3GS, and the reasonable people push right past the 3 to get to the 4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andrew Swift: apple does make a better phone than its current phone and market it at a higher price each year! We just watched the introduction of the iPhone 4, much better than the iPhone 3GS. The 16GB  4 sells for twice the price of the 8GB 3GS, and the reasonable people push right past the 3 to get to the 4.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2349</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2349</guid>
		<description>For the same reason, I&#039;m reading the innovator&#039;s Solution by the same author. Great site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the same reason, I&#8217;m reading the innovator&#8217;s Solution by the same author. Great site!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by ericgen</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2348</link>
		<dc:creator>ericgen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2348</guid>
		<description>Piling on here, but yes, this is an excellent blog with wonderful analysis and lots of food for thought.

Thanks Horace!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Piling on here, but yes, this is an excellent blog with wonderful analysis and lots of food for thought.</p>
<p>Thanks Horace!!!</p>
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	</item>
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		<title>Comment on Nokia&#8217;s fifth last chance by C</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/06/nokias-fifth-last-chance/comment-page-1/#comment-2347</link>
		<dc:creator>C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1880#comment-2347</guid>
		<description>@Priit
1) you&#039;re talking nonsense. Possibly English isn&#039;t your first language, but it would still help if you were to explain where you are and what you have observed directly, and built an argument in a logical, step-by-step fashion rather than writing whatever appears in your forebrain.

2) you&#039;re clearly innocent of everything involved in being a very large company trying to organise manufacture, distribution and servicing of a consumer item such as a smartphone or tablet. You might see if you could learn something on the topic (there&#039;s a whole web with management tutorials and case studies out there) instead of waffling on.

3) saying things like &quot;I remember reading that..&quot; really doesn&#039;t cut it when you&#039;re posting on the web and a search engine is a new browser tab or window away where you could find a link to your evidence (such as it might be).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Priit<br />
1) you&#8217;re talking nonsense. Possibly English isn&#8217;t your first language, but it would still help if you were to explain where you are and what you have observed directly, and built an argument in a logical, step-by-step fashion rather than writing whatever appears in your forebrain.</p>
<p>2) you&#8217;re clearly innocent of everything involved in being a very large company trying to organise manufacture, distribution and servicing of a consumer item such as a smartphone or tablet. You might see if you could learn something on the topic (there&#8217;s a whole web with management tutorials and case studies out there) instead of waffling on.</p>
<p>3) saying things like &#8220;I remember reading that..&#8221; really doesn&#8217;t cut it when you&#8217;re posting on the web and a search engine is a new browser tab or window away where you could find a link to your evidence (such as it might be).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Iphoned</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2346</link>
		<dc:creator>Iphoned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2346</guid>
		<description>To second some other folks opinions, this is a very good blog. One of the best.
Thank you, Horace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To second some other folks opinions, this is a very good blog. One of the best.<br />
Thank you, Horace</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2345</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2345</guid>
		<description>Unlocked iPhones are available in many countries. I did a quick analysis and found that when excluding the VAT, the price is pretty much the same.

http://www.asymco.com/2010/06/16/iphone-4-asp-is-600/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unlocked iPhones are available in many countries. I did a quick analysis and found that when excluding the VAT, the price is pretty much the same.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.asymco.com/2010/06/16/iphone-4-asp-is-600/" rel="nofollow">http://www.asymco.com/2010/06/16/iphone-4-asp-is-600/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by Over 45 Million iPod Touches Sold To Date</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>Over 45 Million iPod Touches Sold To Date</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2344</guid>
		<description>[...] Asymco, a market research firm, has release an estimate claiming that Apple has sold more than 45 million iPod touch units since the device&#8217;s introduction in fall of 2007. That makes up nearly 38% of the 120 million iOS devices Apple has sold. We know that there were 59.6 million iPhones sold through June (from SEC filings) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Asymco, a market research firm, has release an estimate claiming that Apple has sold more than 45 million iPod touch units since the device&#8217;s introduction in fall of 2007. That makes up nearly 38% of the 120 million iOS devices Apple has sold. We know that there were 59.6 million iPhones sold through June (from SEC filings) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by Napi hírek 2010.09.07. &#124; Szifon.com</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2343</link>
		<dc:creator>Napi hírek 2010.09.07. &#124; Szifon.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2343</guid>
		<description>[...] az idők kezdetétől 120 millió iOS operációs rendszerrel ellátott készüléket adtak el. Asymco becslése szerint ebből 67.6 millió iPhone, 7.2 millió iPad és 45.2 millió iPod Touch készülék. És a szám [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] az idők kezdetétől 120 millió iOS operációs rendszerrel ellátott készüléket adtak el. Asymco becslése szerint ebből 67.6 millió iPhone, 7.2 millió iPad és 45.2 millió iPod Touch készülék. És a szám [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2342</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2342</guid>
		<description>If Samsung could develop Bada into a viable ecosystem they would certainly be better off than relying on Android since they could differentiate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Samsung could develop Bada into a viable ecosystem they would certainly be better off than relying on Android since they could differentiate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Gandhi</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2341</link>
		<dc:creator>Gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2341</guid>
		<description>I believe the unlocked price for a iPhone 4 16 gig model is $599</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the unlocked price for a iPhone 4 16 gig model is $599</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Gandhi</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2340</link>
		<dc:creator>Gandhi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2340</guid>
		<description>The iPhone 3GS currently sold for $99 is sold as a loss leader. It is to entice the cheapstakes to come in and kick the proverbial tires. Since the iPhone 4 was introduced, I have yet to see any older 3GS demo units in any of the Apple stores. You walk in to an Apple store, try out the iPhone 4, and Apple hopes you fall in love with it. Over the course of a two year contract, an extra $100 is nothing. Apple hopes you splurge and get the latest iPhone 4. And for the truly determined, they will sell you a 3GS once you specifically ask for it. Or if the 2-year contract commitment scares you, you can buy the iPod Touch. And if you want to go even cheaper, a refurb iPohd Touch. Either way, Apple has added an iOS device user.

And after all this you still do not buy, well then Apple can wait for you to succumb, as they are not in a hurry to lower prices because Apple sells every iOS device they make. And if you don&#039;t succumb, there is a buy 1 get 1 free Android device waiting for you at Verizon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The iPhone 3GS currently sold for $99 is sold as a loss leader. It is to entice the cheapstakes to come in and kick the proverbial tires. Since the iPhone 4 was introduced, I have yet to see any older 3GS demo units in any of the Apple stores. You walk in to an Apple store, try out the iPhone 4, and Apple hopes you fall in love with it. Over the course of a two year contract, an extra $100 is nothing. Apple hopes you splurge and get the latest iPhone 4. And for the truly determined, they will sell you a 3GS once you specifically ask for it. Or if the 2-year contract commitment scares you, you can buy the iPod Touch. And if you want to go even cheaper, a refurb iPohd Touch. Either way, Apple has added an iOS device user.</p>
<p>And after all this you still do not buy, well then Apple can wait for you to succumb, as they are not in a hurry to lower prices because Apple sells every iOS device they make. And if you don&#8217;t succumb, there is a buy 1 get 1 free Android device waiting for you at Verizon.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by rd</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2339</link>
		<dc:creator>rd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2339</guid>
		<description>Only thing I don&#039;t like about the current pricing
structure is that unlocked iPhone customers
are paying what is essentially subsidy that
Apple gets from phone companies.
That is where is margin is unseemly.
Apple would sell even more if the unlocked prices was around
$500-600.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only thing I don&#8217;t like about the current pricing<br />
structure is that unlocked iPhone customers<br />
are paying what is essentially subsidy that<br />
Apple gets from phone companies.<br />
That is where is margin is unseemly.<br />
Apple would sell even more if the unlocked prices was around<br />
$500-600.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Rob Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2338</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2338</guid>
		<description>Another important point I failed to mention is that the difference in subscription on an iPhone at USD650.00 and an Android device at USD450.00 is very small, sometimes they are on exactly the same plan for the same subscription price. 
Carrier funding is important piece here: 
A carrier’s main objectives are to sell devices that attract customers - Acquisitions (Gross Connections plus Upgrades). iPhone delivers on this without fail, every time.
Two, those devices must generate higher ARPU than everyday run-of -the-mill devices. Again, the iPhone delivers.
Three, people must want to upgrade to a better device which is usually available only on a more expensive plan. 
Carries throw promotional funding to the devices that meet these conditions highlighted above. This in turn lower the subscription required from the customer, nullifying the cheapness advantage of competing devices. 
Example: BlackBerry devices are cheaper than any iPhone but the difference in subscription is very small. So, if you are looking for a premium device an iPhone becomes a no brainer, despite the fact that BlackBerry is costing the carrier less than an iPhone. When a carrier puts promotional funding to an iPhone, RIMs price advantage gets wiped out as the devices are available at the same subscription to the customer..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another important point I failed to mention is that the difference in subscription on an iPhone at USD650.00 and an Android device at USD450.00 is very small, sometimes they are on exactly the same plan for the same subscription price.<br />
Carrier funding is important piece here:<br />
A carrier’s main objectives are to sell devices that attract customers &#8211; Acquisitions (Gross Connections plus Upgrades). iPhone delivers on this without fail, every time.<br />
Two, those devices must generate higher ARPU than everyday run-of -the-mill devices. Again, the iPhone delivers.<br />
Three, people must want to upgrade to a better device which is usually available only on a more expensive plan.<br />
Carries throw promotional funding to the devices that meet these conditions highlighted above. This in turn lower the subscription required from the customer, nullifying the cheapness advantage of competing devices.<br />
Example: BlackBerry devices are cheaper than any iPhone but the difference in subscription is very small. So, if you are looking for a premium device an iPhone becomes a no brainer, despite the fact that BlackBerry is costing the carrier less than an iPhone. When a carrier puts promotional funding to an iPhone, RIMs price advantage gets wiped out as the devices are available at the same subscription to the customer..</p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by [KlimBim] PogoplugHD, &#8216;Social for the iPad&#8217;, TomTom-Halterung, iPad-Rotation-Lock, iOS-Geräteverteilung</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2337</link>
		<dc:creator>[KlimBim] PogoplugHD, &#8216;Social for the iPad&#8217;, TomTom-Halterung, iPad-Rotation-Lock, iOS-Geräteverteilung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2337</guid>
		<description>[...] tech.fortune.cnn.com + Asymco  Pogoplug, der Netzwerk-Speicherplatz in den heimischen vier Wänden, steht ab sofort auch mit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tech.fortune.cnn.com + Asymco  Pogoplug, der Netzwerk-Speicherplatz in den heimischen vier Wänden, steht ab sofort auch mit [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Rob Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2336</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2336</guid>
		<description>That is true. iPhone cost the same everywhere in the world, Verizon will not negotiate it down or any other carrier for that matter. When it comes to Apple carriers are price takers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is true. iPhone cost the same everywhere in the world, Verizon will not negotiate it down or any other carrier for that matter. When it comes to Apple carriers are price takers.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Rob Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2335</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2335</guid>
		<description>The iPod touch is available on contract on Vodacom (South Africa). It is marketed as a data device. I suspect that this is going to be more popular with the advent of the iPad. So if you have Mifi or the like you can get the iPod touch on contract for ZAR 139.00 for 300MB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The iPod touch is available on contract on Vodacom (South Africa). It is marketed as a data device. I suspect that this is going to be more popular with the advent of the iPad. So if you have Mifi or the like you can get the iPod touch on contract for ZAR 139.00 for 300MB.</p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by Howard Yermish</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Yermish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2334</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that the market is missing a WiFi only Android device. Someone like Samsung should come out with a physical clone of the iPod Touch, just running Android. No need to carrier lock the device and there is a huge developer community creating applications for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that the market is missing a WiFi only Android device. Someone like Samsung should come out with a physical clone of the iPod Touch, just running Android. No need to carrier lock the device and there is a huge developer community creating applications for it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nokia&#8217;s fifth last chance by RattyUK</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/06/nokias-fifth-last-chance/comment-page-1/#comment-2333</link>
		<dc:creator>RattyUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1880#comment-2333</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t think that grey import suits Apple well&quot;
It&#039;s not supposed to. That&#039;s why it is a grey import... You haven&#039;t said where you are actually from. Apple have no control over them so it can hardly be blamed for them. 

&quot;Talking about iPad I think that the best solution distribution-wise would be roll out them online globally, with global warranty. Because, if judging by the original iPhone, the shortage in the US was artificial, not real.&quot;
Oh conspiracy theories abound! Look Apple have rolled out the iPad to the places they can service in the order they can service them. Artificial shortages is a myth. How many other companies who released a phone this year or a tablet this year managed to ramp up production as quickly as Apple have managed?

You may think that Apple have managed distribution badly but honestly you are completely misreading what is happening and painting the whole thing with your ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t think that grey import suits Apple well&#8221;<br />
It&#8217;s not supposed to. That&#8217;s why it is a grey import&#8230; You haven&#8217;t said where you are actually from. Apple have no control over them so it can hardly be blamed for them. </p>
<p>&#8220;Talking about iPad I think that the best solution distribution-wise would be roll out them online globally, with global warranty. Because, if judging by the original iPhone, the shortage in the US was artificial, not real.&#8221;<br />
Oh conspiracy theories abound! Look Apple have rolled out the iPad to the places they can service in the order they can service them. Artificial shortages is a myth. How many other companies who released a phone this year or a tablet this year managed to ramp up production as quickly as Apple have managed?</p>
<p>You may think that Apple have managed distribution badly but honestly you are completely misreading what is happening and painting the whole thing with your ideas.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by poru</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2332</link>
		<dc:creator>poru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2332</guid>
		<description>Good points esp re the marketing and inventory issues (which for Apple are hardly problems). Much easier to handle both with all the free advertising Apple gets, the simplified product line, and of course the huge demand. Months after the launch there is still a 3-week wait for an iPhone here (in FR, and elsewhere I believe).

As for the &quot;churn,&quot; the tremendous investment many if not most iPhone users will have in iTunes media and apps is another disincentive to change brands. With both the huge range and generally high quality of Apple&#039;s apps another phone would have to be pretty damn good to seduce me away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points esp re the marketing and inventory issues (which for Apple are hardly problems). Much easier to handle both with all the free advertising Apple gets, the simplified product line, and of course the huge demand. Months after the launch there is still a 3-week wait for an iPhone here (in FR, and elsewhere I believe).</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;churn,&#8221; the tremendous investment many if not most iPhone users will have in iTunes media and apps is another disincentive to change brands. With both the huge range and generally high quality of Apple&#8217;s apps another phone would have to be pretty damn good to seduce me away.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Tom Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2330</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2330</guid>
		<description>I think the point was that Apple is selling both expensive and cheap iPods. So we might expect Apple to do the same with the iPhone over time.

The conclusion that Apple is deliberately limiting the iPhone&#039;s market share is rather premature when you look at their growth rate of 65 % over the last twelve months (or 80 %, purely in terms of sell-through). For now I would much rather argue that they are expanding production as fast as possible and price is dictated by that supply limit. Apple&#039;s strategy may very well be to keep the iPhone growing by 50 %+ per year for the next 5 years, and drop prices only when that goal is in danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point was that Apple is selling both expensive and cheap iPods. So we might expect Apple to do the same with the iPhone over time.</p>
<p>The conclusion that Apple is deliberately limiting the iPhone&#8217;s market share is rather premature when you look at their growth rate of 65 % over the last twelve months (or 80 %, purely in terms of sell-through). For now I would much rather argue that they are expanding production as fast as possible and price is dictated by that supply limit. Apple&#8217;s strategy may very well be to keep the iPhone growing by 50 %+ per year for the next 5 years, and drop prices only when that goal is in danger.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2327</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2327</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m becoming very comfortable with the assumption that the selling price for the iPhone is the same for all operators world-wide and that price is very similar to what it charges in its stores for unlocked phones. Apple has a simple negotiating tactic: take it or leave it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m becoming very comfortable with the assumption that the selling price for the iPhone is the same for all operators world-wide and that price is very similar to what it charges in its stores for unlocked phones. Apple has a simple negotiating tactic: take it or leave it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by Slipdisc</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2326</link>
		<dc:creator>Slipdisc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2326</guid>
		<description>Why is your last name hyphenated? Just wondering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is your last name hyphenated? Just wondering.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Tom Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2324</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2324</guid>
		<description>That still leaves the question if both Verizon and AT&amp;T can afford a $400+ subsidy once the iPhone is not exclusive anymore. Unless Apple wins some stunning negotiation victory, either the retail price of the iPhone in the US will go up or the wholesale price will go down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That still leaves the question if both Verizon and AT&amp;T can afford a $400+ subsidy once the iPhone is not exclusive anymore. Unless Apple wins some stunning negotiation victory, either the retail price of the iPhone in the US will go up or the wholesale price will go down.</p>
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		<title>Comment on iPod touch made up 37.7 percent of all iOS devices sold so far by Can Touch This #66 &#8211; Play as a Cup of Instant Noodles &#124; MacTalk Australia</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/03/ipod-touch-made-up-37-7-percent-of-all-ios-devices-sold-so-far/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>Can Touch This #66 &#8211; Play as a Cup of Instant Noodles &#124; MacTalk Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1856#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>[...] 38% of iOS devices are an iPod touch [...]

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The comment&#039;s server IP (119.15.96.164) doesn&#039;t match the comment&#039;s URL host IP (119.15.96.166) and so is spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 38% of iOS devices are an iPod touch [...]</p>
<p>[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The comment&#8217;s server IP (119.15.96.164) doesn&#8217;t match the comment&#8217;s URL host IP (119.15.96.166) and so is spam.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Andrew Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2322</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2322</guid>
		<description>I agree that the sale of older-generation iPhones goes some ways towards serving all the &quot;reasonable&quot; people out there, but my own observations among people I know are that 1) it still feels like too much of a luxury purchase and 2) there&#039;s a strong resistance to buying a &quot;new&quot; product that came out more than a year ago. 

Even if a year-old 3GS iPhone is objectively better than a new Android phone, many people would rather have the new Android. They just assume that if the iPhone is a year old, it&#039;s not much good anymore -- it must be too slow, and the screen probably isn&#039;t good, you can&#039;t update it, etc. The fact that it&#039;s directly comparable to a new iPhone 4 makes it look bad.

There are lots of people who buy new (but mediocre) bicycles at the shopping center for $129 when they could obviously get a much better bike, used, for the same price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the sale of older-generation iPhones goes some ways towards serving all the &#8220;reasonable&#8221; people out there, but my own observations among people I know are that 1) it still feels like too much of a luxury purchase and 2) there&#8217;s a strong resistance to buying a &#8220;new&#8221; product that came out more than a year ago. </p>
<p>Even if a year-old 3GS iPhone is objectively better than a new Android phone, many people would rather have the new Android. They just assume that if the iPhone is a year old, it&#8217;s not much good anymore &#8212; it must be too slow, and the screen probably isn&#8217;t good, you can&#8217;t update it, etc. The fact that it&#8217;s directly comparable to a new iPhone 4 makes it look bad.</p>
<p>There are lots of people who buy new (but mediocre) bicycles at the shopping center for $129 when they could obviously get a much better bike, used, for the same price.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Andrew Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>I almost added, to my initial comment, that one reason for the success of the iPod Touch may be that the iPhone, acting as an anchor, means that people that are trying to be &quot;reasonable&quot; can buy themselves a Touch instead of an iPhone. That was certainly my own case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost added, to my initial comment, that one reason for the success of the iPod Touch may be that the iPhone, acting as an anchor, means that people that are trying to be &#8220;reasonable&#8221; can buy themselves a Touch instead of an iPhone. That was certainly my own case.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Andrew Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2320</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2320</guid>
		<description>The iPod doesn&#039;t compete directly with Android devices because people buying Androids are looking for a telephone first and foremost, and because Androids are sold with carrier subsidies (if I understood your question).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The iPod doesn&#8217;t compete directly with Android devices because people buying Androids are looking for a telephone first and foremost, and because Androids are sold with carrier subsidies (if I understood your question).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by ericgen</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>ericgen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>Also, for the past two iPhone product cycles they have been selling the previous cycle&#039;s iPhone for $99 along with the new model of iPhone. Anyone who knows the iPhone is better but has to be &#039;reasonable&#039; would by last year&#039;s model for $99 as it&#039;s obviously a steal and supports the notion that they&#039;re being &#039;reasonable&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, for the past two iPhone product cycles they have been selling the previous cycle&#8217;s iPhone for $99 along with the new model of iPhone. Anyone who knows the iPhone is better but has to be &#8216;reasonable&#8217; would by last year&#8217;s model for $99 as it&#8217;s obviously a steal and supports the notion that they&#8217;re being &#8216;reasonable&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>What about the iPod?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the iPod?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Andrew Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>Given their current stance, I don&#039;t think that Apple will have to cut margins. The best-of-class nature of the iPhone means that it will never get majority market penetration -- it is &lt;b&gt;the high-end choice&lt;/b&gt;, and serves as an &lt;b&gt;anchor in the smartphone market&lt;/b&gt;, shaping people&#039;s pricing expectations for smartphones. Apple has chosen this position, and unless they show signs of offering a telephone at a reduced price &lt;b&gt;compared to an iPhone&lt;/b&gt;, I don&#039;t see how this could change.

A majority of people in the world buy mediocre cars, eat mediocre food and so on, just because &lt;b&gt;their self-image is of someone who lives &quot;reasonably&quot;&lt;/b&gt;. These average men and women don&#039;t go to nice restaurants, and even in mediocre restaurants, they don&#039;t order the most expensive dish (though they could easily afford it), just because they&#039;ve accepted their fate as someone reasonable. As long as the iPhone is the most expensive phone, it&#039;s going to be off the table for this (vast) group of people, who think &lt;b&gt;&quot;the iPhone is nice, but I don&#039;t deserve it/can&#039;t afford it&quot;&lt;/b&gt;. These people have historically been Windows buyers and are now Android buyers.

Apple will never be able to convince these people that their phone is better -- &lt;b&gt;these people know it&#039;s better&lt;/b&gt; but it&#039;s because of that they they won&#039;t buy it. Apple could combat this by making a better, more expensive phone, just to make the normal iPhone seem like less of a luxury, or by creating a less-expensive telephone to sell to the masses. However, historically Apple has shown little interest in pursuing this part of the market -- it would be &lt;b&gt;like Mercedes targeting Chevrolet buyers&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given their current stance, I don&#8217;t think that Apple will have to cut margins. The best-of-class nature of the iPhone means that it will never get majority market penetration &#8212; it is <b>the high-end choice</b>, and serves as an <b>anchor in the smartphone market</b>, shaping people&#8217;s pricing expectations for smartphones. Apple has chosen this position, and unless they show signs of offering a telephone at a reduced price <b>compared to an iPhone</b>, I don&#8217;t see how this could change.</p>
<p>A majority of people in the world buy mediocre cars, eat mediocre food and so on, just because <b>their self-image is of someone who lives &#8220;reasonably&#8221;</b>. These average men and women don&#8217;t go to nice restaurants, and even in mediocre restaurants, they don&#8217;t order the most expensive dish (though they could easily afford it), just because they&#8217;ve accepted their fate as someone reasonable. As long as the iPhone is the most expensive phone, it&#8217;s going to be off the table for this (vast) group of people, who think <b>&#8220;the iPhone is nice, but I don&#8217;t deserve it/can&#8217;t afford it&#8221;</b>. These people have historically been Windows buyers and are now Android buyers.</p>
<p>Apple will never be able to convince these people that their phone is better &#8212; <b>these people know it&#8217;s better</b> but it&#8217;s because of that they they won&#8217;t buy it. Apple could combat this by making a better, more expensive phone, just to make the normal iPhone seem like less of a luxury, or by creating a less-expensive telephone to sell to the masses. However, historically Apple has shown little interest in pursuing this part of the market &#8212; it would be <b>like Mercedes targeting Chevrolet buyers</b>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Philip Bergen</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Bergen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>The textbook example of innovation as keeper of high margins is Gilette. For decades they have been able to maintain awesome margins in a commodity market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The textbook example of innovation as keeper of high margins is Gilette. For decades they have been able to maintain awesome margins in a commodity market.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by relentlessfocus</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>relentlessfocus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2314</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re doing a great job clarifying the market with unique information. thanks.

Apple&#039;s ability to maintain high margins has been consistent over time and over multiple products. I think there are 3 main reasons:
1) Product differentiation. Through hardware, software and multiple product integration (ie, macs, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iWork, MobileMe, etc all feed into each other)  and Apple&#039;s unique flair with design, marketing and support, Apple continues to provide lust worthy products which appeal to large numbers of people despite a mild price premium. Apple speaks of increasing value to customers which includes intangables such as user friendliness, the genius bar, etc etc. It&#039;s because of this increased value that Apple can maintain high margins while others have to fight a war of price. 
2) Ironically I think mid-priced and cheap Android products are going to provide huge price pressure on the upper end of the Android market leaving this high margin section of the market for Apple to dominate. As in the PC market, most Android oriented consumers will not have to pay for the upper end Android products when they can get essentially the same phone minus some questionable &quot;high end&quot; features for a lot cheaper. And like in the Win-PC market, if you want an Android phone you can get a cheap one, if you want an Apple product you&#039;ll pay the exclusivity price. Apple has shown they know how to pull this off and maintain high margins.
3) Apple have a purchasing power advantage. Android is not a company that buys physical parts. HTC, Motorola, etc are. Android may well surpass iOS in sheer numbers but when it comes to making a profit on phones its how many chips and boards and buttons and screens you buy which determine your price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re doing a great job clarifying the market with unique information. thanks.</p>
<p>Apple&#8217;s ability to maintain high margins has been consistent over time and over multiple products. I think there are 3 main reasons:<br />
1) Product differentiation. Through hardware, software and multiple product integration (ie, macs, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iWork, MobileMe, etc all feed into each other)  and Apple&#8217;s unique flair with design, marketing and support, Apple continues to provide lust worthy products which appeal to large numbers of people despite a mild price premium. Apple speaks of increasing value to customers which includes intangables such as user friendliness, the genius bar, etc etc. It&#8217;s because of this increased value that Apple can maintain high margins while others have to fight a war of price.<br />
2) Ironically I think mid-priced and cheap Android products are going to provide huge price pressure on the upper end of the Android market leaving this high margin section of the market for Apple to dominate. As in the PC market, most Android oriented consumers will not have to pay for the upper end Android products when they can get essentially the same phone minus some questionable &#8220;high end&#8221; features for a lot cheaper. And like in the Win-PC market, if you want an Android phone you can get a cheap one, if you want an Apple product you&#8217;ll pay the exclusivity price. Apple has shown they know how to pull this off and maintain high margins.<br />
3) Apple have a purchasing power advantage. Android is not a company that buys physical parts. HTC, Motorola, etc are. Android may well surpass iOS in sheer numbers but when it comes to making a profit on phones its how many chips and boards and buttons and screens you buy which determine your price.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Rob Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>@ asymco:

First thanks for a great blog. Now I have four great blogs I read rather religiously: Daring Fireball, Roughly Drafted (wish he would post more), Counternotions (same wish here) and this blog. This is on top of other great content from other “Apple Press and people”.  I found this blog via Philip Elmer-DeWitt and John Gruber; I thought I should mention that.

Thanks for the graphs. I download them for future use and copying for my own projects.

Apple is not going to cut margins for a very long time. Here is why:
Apple sells the iPhone as a premium device. Market share is secondary. They are undersupplying the market by 40 – 80%. There is huge pent-up and unfulfilled demand for iPhones and this will remain so for years. This allows Apple to charge what it thinks is the right price for its wares.
This undersupplying guarantees that the iPhone will almost always sell out. No obsolescence to deal with for carries. No huge marketing spend to move the devices. 

Obsolescence and distressed stock is one of the biggest costs for telecoms companies. With iPhone, you do not have to deal with this at all. On the other hand this is already the biggest problem with Android devices: they cost telecom companies serious money. This forces the telcos to negotiate harder on the cost of devices and later for marketing help to move the devices.

iPhone generate the highest ARPU of all mobiles OSes 2X higher than an Android device. Lastly iPhone has the lowest churn.
All Apple needs to do to keep its high margins is to continue to innovate faster than Google, keep the phone a premium device, everything else follows. For the telcos a device with high cachet, high ARPU, low churn, and no obsolescence deserve every penny you pay for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ asymco:</p>
<p>First thanks for a great blog. Now I have four great blogs I read rather religiously: Daring Fireball, Roughly Drafted (wish he would post more), Counternotions (same wish here) and this blog. This is on top of other great content from other “Apple Press and people”.  I found this blog via Philip Elmer-DeWitt and John Gruber; I thought I should mention that.</p>
<p>Thanks for the graphs. I download them for future use and copying for my own projects.</p>
<p>Apple is not going to cut margins for a very long time. Here is why:<br />
Apple sells the iPhone as a premium device. Market share is secondary. They are undersupplying the market by 40 – 80%. There is huge pent-up and unfulfilled demand for iPhones and this will remain so for years. This allows Apple to charge what it thinks is the right price for its wares.<br />
This undersupplying guarantees that the iPhone will almost always sell out. No obsolescence to deal with for carries. No huge marketing spend to move the devices. </p>
<p>Obsolescence and distressed stock is one of the biggest costs for telecoms companies. With iPhone, you do not have to deal with this at all. On the other hand this is already the biggest problem with Android devices: they cost telecom companies serious money. This forces the telcos to negotiate harder on the cost of devices and later for marketing help to move the devices.</p>
<p>iPhone generate the highest ARPU of all mobiles OSes 2X higher than an Android device. Lastly iPhone has the lowest churn.<br />
All Apple needs to do to keep its high margins is to continue to innovate faster than Google, keep the phone a premium device, everything else follows. For the telcos a device with high cachet, high ARPU, low churn, and no obsolescence deserve every penny you pay for it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Tim Nash</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Nash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>The graph also shows the companies that don&#039;t license out their OS have done best and even Nokia, which has controlled Symbian, has better margins than any of the Androids. So will Samsung, despite all the recent noises about how wonderful Android is, concentrate resources on establishing Bada in Korea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The graph also shows the companies that don&#8217;t license out their OS have done best and even Nokia, which has controlled Symbian, has better margins than any of the Androids. So will Samsung, despite all the recent noises about how wonderful Android is, concentrate resources on establishing Bada in Korea?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by RattyUK</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>RattyUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>@ Mike &quot;One could argue that we saw more innovation in the last 12 months from Google’s Android and all the Android hardware manufacturers.&quot;
Would you care to illustrate what you mean? Adding a plethora of features is not innovation. That is the old feature phone &quot;improvement&quot; technique - a tired method that he established players  have trotted out for years.
&quot;And that Apple did start on innovation but is now still successful in the smartphone market because of hype and past glories.&quot;
If you think that the iPhone sells merely because of &quot;hype and past glories&quot; then you really don&#039;t understand what is going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mike &#8220;One could argue that we saw more innovation in the last 12 months from Google’s Android and all the Android hardware manufacturers.&#8221;<br />
Would you care to illustrate what you mean? Adding a plethora of features is not innovation. That is the old feature phone &#8220;improvement&#8221; technique &#8211; a tired method that he established players  have trotted out for years.<br />
&#8220;And that Apple did start on innovation but is now still successful in the smartphone market because of hype and past glories.&#8221;<br />
If you think that the iPhone sells merely because of &#8220;hype and past glories&#8221; then you really don&#8217;t understand what is going on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by Narayanan</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator>Narayanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2306</guid>
		<description>Copying an established system is not innovation. 
All the competition has done is to run faster along a path at was cleared by Apple.

But one thing at concerns me is that the tipping point may be reached earlier due to the mad rush to catch up and by market flooding.

Thanks for the analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copying an established system is not innovation.<br />
All the competition has done is to run faster along a path at was cleared by Apple.</p>
<p>But one thing at concerns me is that the tipping point may be reached earlier due to the mad rush to catch up and by market flooding.</p>
<p>Thanks for the analysis.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will Apple need to cut margins on the iPhone? by asymco</title>
		<link>http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/07/will-apple-need-to-cut-margins-on-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator>asymco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asymco.com/?p=1883#comment-2302</guid>
		<description>For innovation to be driving both growth and margins it has to exhibit two characteristics: 1) it has to be an improvement that is absorbable and 2) the improvement will be something people are willing to pay for.

This has nothing to do with competitive pressure. If Android vendors are able to do the same thing they will also see healthy growth.  (see also RIM vs. Apple)

Furthermore innovation is not quantifiable (i.e &quot;more innovation&quot; is meaningless). Innovation is measured by its effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For innovation to be driving both growth and margins it has to exhibit two characteristics: 1) it has to be an improvement that is absorbable and 2) the improvement will be something people are willing to pay for.</p>
<p>This has nothing to do with competitive pressure. If Android vendors are able to do the same thing they will also see healthy growth.  (see also RIM vs. Apple)</p>
<p>Furthermore innovation is not quantifiable (i.e &#8220;more innovation&#8221; is meaningless). Innovation is measured by its effect.</p>
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